Curse

Volomon · Jul 10, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Ok obviously the Beast Mastery line out of all other has to be the least used. I think everyone can agree that everyone automatically accepts the fact that this is utterly a last idea and merely a novelty skill line.

Anet based on that fact alone should be working on why its barely used and start fixing that line.

Now normally I don't play pets at all but I just find it to be unique merely for the above fact. However its still hard to justify its use for any reason at all.

#1. Pet DP, its just retarded your pretty much killing the entire skill line by applying DP to pets. When your pet is using up multiple skill spots then dies in a few hits because of 60% DP, its really hard to justify its use.

#2 AI obviously all AI sucks in this game, pet AI is no different luckly theres not as much room for them to suck as there is henchmen. The MOBs are evened out by an increased amount of health or damage whereas hench and pets are not.

#3 Uses of Skill Slots needed to devote to pet. AKA Charm.

#4 Interruption, and the rez/heal interruption. How many times have you died from this alone?

I've been thinking, what about applying a unique extra slot for Charm, I seriously don't believe it should count as a skill slot, whats everyone else think a possiblity? That by itself would increase its probablity of usage or even removing the DP.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 10, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

#2 AI obviously all AI sucks in this game, pet AI is no different luckly theres not as much room for them to suck as there is henchmen. The MOBs are evened out by an increased amount of health or damage whereas hench and pets are not.

What? This must be your first game. The AI in this game is the most advanced today. The mapping is perfect. Of course AI will be stupid, they don't really think (IE, Artificial Intelligence), they can't adapt to the way people think (Atleast not very well), of course.

You wouln't find better AI then this, really.

Volomon · Jul 10, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

What are you talking about the AI has shitty pathfinding, its attacks are based on what limited skills they are given, and they just attack anything you attack. As soon as you die their survivablity goes down by 50% unless your pass the Forge with the Prot Monk.

I mean the whole basis of beating the "Mirror Self" is by giving it skills it will kill itself using or at least thats how most people beat it.

The AI mobs are based on patrol points and simple placement. Its the most simplistic AI you could find.

Compare the complexity of a FPS AI to a MMO AI, MMO AI is turned down for a reason so theres very little info from server to client as possible.

Thats why theres no control for the pet like in most MMOs. Such as attack, passive, follow etc that you would find in most other games with "advanced AI".

For your information some games do have adaptive AI, they just switch AI scripts depending on your actions. Such as aggressive AI becoming defensive when they are running low on resources or health triggered by that factor.

Ohya and Dynamic Scripting, where they create their own ruleset based on encounters and develop the script on their own based on how well it worked.

Mormegil · Jul 10, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Mmmm, no. Try to face a grp of shadow warriors/monks/mesmers in the fissure of woe. The monk heals when needed, the mesmer interrupts your skills constantly OR sucks out your mana, while the warrior(s) will beat the crap out of you.

Frankly, they're more intelligent than the average player.

A human grp composed by the same classes will probably result in the monk casting useless healing breezes, thus running out of mana fast; the mesmer would cast some spell here and there only to end running away like a retarded from a warrior eager to deal Final Thrust on her; the warrior would attack another warrior to prove he's cool and mighty, wasting his dps on a heavy armored and constantly healed enemy and getting raped to death by casters some seconds later.

Oh and talking about beastmastery, of course there's a way to make your pet more effective. Just read ATTENTIVELY all the skills you have that can increase your pet's dmg/rate of attacks and pump the attribute up.

mamluk · Jul 10, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

The AI is ok in this game, enough that I find it enjoyable, but to claim that it is the most advanced today is laughable.

For exanoke, most of the time the AI will follow me in a direct line, which is great when I don't want to aggro anything, but I keep noticing that they will bunch up sometimes, making their aggro radius touch some mobs that I had avoided. Very annoying. Better AI would fix that.

Drakron · Jul 10, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Well its true, enemies mesmer dont use skills on my warrior they use on my elementarist ... they do a fine job of disable my characters as they can.

Another thing I found is they always go after spellcasters first, with my elementarist I was usually attacked first and with my warrior they simply run past me and go after the monk.

Aniewiel · Jul 10, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

The thing that I dislike the most about pets has been adequately documented by others: The fact that to "bring" your pet takes 1/4 of your skill bar. That's too much. I can see having one slot taken, but 2 is too many.

That said, IF they increased the skill belt to 10 slots, I could live with it.

Mumblyfish · Jul 10, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

Ok obviously the Beast Mastery line out of all other has to be the least used. I think everyone can agree that everyone automatically accepts the fact that this is utterly a last idea and merely a novelty skill line.

Least used? Perhaps so. I don't think that means anything, in real terms. Least popular doesn't mean least useful. Many of us don't consider Beast Mastery to be a novelty skill line. It has a full range of solid skills that cover even more ground than the other Ranger weapon line, Marksmanship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

#1. Pet DP, its just retarded your pretty much killing the entire skill line by applying DP to pets. When your pet is using up multiple skill spots then dies in a few hits because of 60% DP, its really hard to justify its use.

Your pet is a tough little bugger, if you pack some half-decent skills. The only excuse for him dying should be you dying. In that case, suck up the DP (everything gets DP, it's a universal game mechanic) and try to get a Morale Boost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

#2 AI obviously all AI sucks in this game, pet AI is no different luckly theres not as much room for them to suck as there is henchmen. The MOBs are evened out by an increased amount of health or damage whereas hench and pets are not.

The AI is silly, yes. Just work around it. I manage to command my pet quite well, and bar a few pathfinding problems (this is not specific to pets) or mapping errors, he manages just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

#3 Uses of Skill Slots needed to devote to pet.

Beast Mastery is a weapon line. Your pet is your weapon, probably in lieu of your bow. Well, bollocks, I need to use most of my skill bar on Marksmanship skills if I want to be an archer? Bah! Just as swordsmen need to specialise, so do tamers. The pet is wonderfully balanced (though woefully underused), you just haven't tried to work it into a build yet.

Aniewiel · Jul 10, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

MF, You shouldn't have to use TWO slots just to bring the pet!

Mumblyfish · Jul 10, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

...Why not? I manage just fine making a PvP tamer with the skill requirement.

Aniewiel · Jul 10, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I think it would be more fair to have one skill required to bring it, opening up an extra slot for a pet attack skill or a pet heal skill. It shouldn't be an automatic that two are required. That way, if the person schlepping a pet along, opts NOT to bring the pet res skill, they're SOoL.

Volomon · Jul 10, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Ok apparently people can't figure out the reason the Mesmer AI mobs or any Mob for that matter are capable of doing their jobs is because they probably only have 3-4 powers, not only do they have a 1 out of 4 chance of casting the right spell, but the recharge times keep them from casting the wrong spell over and over.

Thats not AI thats just limiting the amount they can screw up. Simply put they just limit what they can do so they can't screw up. Thats why you'll never see any mobs with more than one class of power. Plus they give them more mana and life to compensate for their lack of AI, that way even if they cast a lame spell they still have plenty of mana to screw up on.

I mean do you hear what your saying the monks heal when they need to heal, thats cause thats all the powers they have. For instance they can't figure out whos most important to heal or have a priority, a human player would probably choose to heal himself that why he could stay alive and heal everyone else after aggro is off of him, or heal lowest health player to highest.

NPC doesn't have a priority it just heals who ever has damage which is why henchmen run out of mana healing everything thats hurt even when out of a fight. Their priority sucks so bad they end up getting themselves killed even mobs. They don't know when to rez, aka rezing in the middle of a fight, which is why you don't see rez on very many mobs and if they do have it they are pretty dedicated to it.

I just came back to say that I thought Sagius Truthbarron might have just been sarcastic, but then again after reading these posts maybe people really believe the AI is good.

Quote:

Least used? Perhaps so. I don't think that means anything, in real terms. Least popular doesn't mean least useful. Many of us don't consider Beast Mastery to be a novelty skill line. It has a full range of solid skills that cover even more ground than the other Ranger weapon line, Marksmanship.

Ya all those PVP build on all the forums, hmm, maybe your right.

Quote:

Beast Mastery is a weapon line. Your pet is your weapon, probably in lieu of your bow. Well, bollocks, I need to use most of my skill bar on Marksmanship skills if I want to be an archer? Bah! Just as swordsmen need to specialise, so do tamers. The pet is wonderfully balanced (though woefully underused), you just haven't tried to work it into a build yet.

When has Swordsmanship or Marksmanship required a slot just to hold the weapon? Not to mention the 8 second interupt. Or if you carry the healing rez pet skill, your pretty much interupted again.

Mumblyfish · Jul 10, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

But then you're giving tamers one more skill slot to play with, and I reckon it's a bit too late to rebalance tamers accordingly. As someone who dabbles with Beast Mastery myself, I wouldn't want that.

Mumblyfish · Jul 10, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

Ya all those PVP build on all the forums, hmm, maybe your right.

Since when has this been a measurement of the attribute's viability?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

When has Swordsmanship or Marksmanship required a slot just to hold the weapon?

When has either brought another body to the playing field? It's just one of the cons of the attribute, every single one has them. It's got pros in spades, just like the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volomon

Not to mention the 8 second interupt. Or if you carry the healing rez pet skill, your pretty much interupted again.

Just another one of the cons. I never really notice it, myself, as the only time the pet dies my team's as good as lost, or I'm dead.

Kiiron · Jul 10, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I have to agree with the skill requirement problem. It seems kind of silly to have to carry around both Charm and Comfort to be able to deal damage consistently. Sure, every weapon line requires skills, but at least those skills -do- something. You have to carry around Charm just to have your pet with you, and the skill doesn't do anything once you've already tamed an animal. Maybe if they combined Charm and Comfort into one skill? Having to spend 1/4 of your skills just to keep your pet around to do damage seems like too much of a sacrifice most of the time

edit: fixed typo

Aniewiel · Jul 10, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Once tamed, the animal companion should automatically come with you. Once in a battle situation, the ranger should have the option to "unsummon" their pet, thereby eliminating the need to carry Charm.

Volomon · Jul 10, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

When has either brought another body to the playing field? It's just one of the cons of the attribute, every single one has them. It's got pros in spades, just like the rest.

Swordsmanship and Marksmanship provide damage the same way that Beast Mastery provides damage through the animal, its more of a con that the damage is dealt through an animal since animals can get stuck killed and they interrupt you. Plus can be DPed making the possibility that you are without your weapon at its full capacity.

This thing has more cons than any other skill line.

Lets put it this way if Beast Mastery is the equivilent of any other weapon skill line then you would see alot of people with just Beast Mastery as an attack skill or at least that would be plausible.

Quote:

Just another one of the cons. I never really notice it, myself, as the only time the pet dies my team's as good as lost, or I'm dead.

I'm sorry but the only explanation that is might be true is because the average player realizes the futility of bring a pet the Arena or Tournament. I guarantee the average player just scoffs at the idea of it.

I know I do. I know 90% or higher ignore pets since pets can't use skills without their master, most people go for the master of the pet.

Pets have more cons than pros, simple as that. It needs to be fixed.

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I mean who here hasn't seen a Newbie attack a pet in say the Ascalon Arena and just thought to themselves, dumbass when there were other people of more importance.

On the flipside who here has been in a group where the Monk won't heal their pet? Why cause the monk knows that pets worthless, and he'll get DP so fast that it's just pointless.

I know there are some Ranger/Monks who devote themselves to their pets as an exception to the keep alive rule but come on not everyone should have to have this class in order for the skill line to work.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jul 10, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Novelty line?! ok i'm going to have my strider come sit on your head. There are quite a few of us who play an all beatmastery build, and it is NOT a novelty, it's a serious build like any other thank you very much. And as for thr AI on pets, have you ever riden a horse? They are suposed to be tame and listen to you, but 40% of the time they don't. You can't expect a pet to be as smart as a human player. (sometimes they are smarter then some noob players though XP)
I'm sick of all you people bitchin about pet builds, if you don't like it don't play it and leave it alone! I've said it a millin times and i'll say it again, it's not the pets that suck, it's the people who don't understand how to use them... And there have been a ton of threads on this do a search!

Caelus The Fallen · Jul 10, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I've always thought it would be more sensible if any pet skill, not just Charm, allowed you to bring your pet along.

drowningfish999 · Jul 10, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

I think pets are fine the way they are, people just can't notice the difference pets make. No one ever attacks pets in PvP, unless theres nothing else to do. Obviously this is a mistake if the tamer knows what hes doing. A pet can easily move to the back and mess up a spellcaster since almost no one will pay any attention to him. The only thing I want to be changed about pets is allowing you to see how much damage they do.